Logo

Apple Mail Privacy Protection: What We Know Now, What to Do Next & Predictions for the Future - Shared screen with speaker view
arturo ramirez siles
17:38
Hi
Brian Duke
20:49
In a recent Litmus blog, it suggested that within 6 months ~90% of apple device users would be upgraded to iOS 15 (and potentially opted into MPP). Does Apple provide any statistics for how many have already opted into MPP since iOS was made available a couple of weeks ago?
Nicholas Dettmann
21:29
Great question Brian. I'm wondering same thing.
Matthew Nedbalsky
22:23
How will the ISPs view the opens? Will they see it as positive behavior?
Elana Shama
22:24
Do the changes effect all IOS users, even if they are using other email client apps (gmail, yahoo, etc.) or only Apple Mail users?
Samantha Vreeland
22:28
Do you recommend incorporating more SMS into the marketing mix to help offset the dip from accurate email measurement?
David Meier
22:37
https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/ios_15/from_date:-9,report_unit:day,to_date:0
Jean-François Galarneau
22:48
Question :Should clicks be checked when doing A/B testing of subject-lines and how important is clicks relevant to subject-lines since Opens will have a reduced pool if we check only none iOS15?
Christina Campo
23:27
big question I have is how to keep our lists clean from unengaged recipients.
Melany Maurer
23:33
Can you clarify which users we know for sure will be affected by Apple MPP? Apple mail users and Mobile Safari?
Ivette Garzon
23:44
^^^ Same
Elana Shama
23:49
same
Maggie Ho
24:01
Is there a specific mail-agent-string or unique identifier for iOS15 Apple Mail affected users? How are you differentiating the "Apple privacy-impacted opens" in the Litmus Analytics tracking report page?
Derek Barnett
24:04
Likewise, opens played a major role in how we determined disengagement.
STEPHEN FOSTER
24:04
We've already begun to see anomalies in our results, but not only opens; we're seeing unrealistic click rates as well - is it possible MPP is/will also "bot" links which would reflect as an artificial click?
Joelle Charbel
24:10
Does this impact other marketing channels than email (i.e. paid ads)?
Kelsey Jacobs
24:15
MPP is currently live?
Elana Shama
24:22
Also, how to deal with email sends by time zone if the IPs are blocked?
Craig Glaser
24:36
How are you identifying the "auto-opens" on the back end
Luke Erickson
24:42
I’ve been having some success forcing unengaged users to click on a link by changing their HTML preference
Hope Barrett
24:47
What changes have happened since launch?
Ivette Garzon
24:47
@Kelsey it went live on 9/20 with the apple iOS update
Alaina Calabro
24:49
big question I have is how to keep our lists clean from unengaged recipients.
Heather Dunning
25:00
On the iCloud+ exclusive features like hide my e-mail, it looks like Apple may be giving free upgrades which could result in greater impact than initially anticipated. Curious if you’ve heard anything further about anticipated impact.
Derek Baines
25:09
What changed this morning Chad?!
Kelsey Jacobs
25:11
TY!
Michelle Johnson
25:44
Do the changes effect all IOS users, even if they are using other email client apps? Outlook? Or only Apple mail users?
ANDREW WOLFSON
25:47
Apple did a soft launch on 9/20, so it is not forcing update to iOS15. That will most likely change with the influx of iPhone13s when they send those out
STEPHEN FOSTER
25:57
April I love the Les Paul hanging on the wall!
Luke Erickson
26:06
I’ve been having some success forcing unengaged users to click on a link to see the content, circumventing the automatic open
Jen McDadee
26:13
what are the differences between how B2C and B2B emails are affected?
Barbara Casey
26:30
Is this only for users of apple mail? What about apple users who use outlook?
Elana Shama
26:32
@luke Erickson, how did you do that?
Ivette Garzon
26:35
@Michelle it is currently only effecting Apple Mail users not email clients yet.
Helen Galligan
27:00
Would this affect emails to my members? Like for their statements, account info etc?
Ernest Salaz
27:01
@Jen that was on my mind as well, B2B vs. B2C
Claudia Lee
27:05
how do we differentiate between 'auto-open' vs real open?
Alaina Calabro
27:12
Yes, MPP was released on 9/20
Ivette Garzon
27:24
@Luke we've done the same and changed our list segmentation from opens to recent click within X amount of days.
Parker Stoner
27:44
With such a large percentage of opens on Apple and nearly everyone opting in for MPP, why are we only seeing 6 to 14 percent of emails auto opened?
Luke Erickson
27:44
Change their HTML preference to text-only along with a backup field so you can change it back
Barbara Casey
27:45
So what do we look for to define “engaged”
Jocelyn Carlisle
27:58
Embedding a background image (defined in CSS instead of HTML) and targeting iOS via media query achieves more accurate open numbers. The question is if Apple starts parsing CSS to prevent this
Alice Ko
28:06
@Jen same question, b2b vs b2c
ANDREW WOLFSON
28:06
@parker Stoner - soft Apple launch
Dennis Hengeveld
28:41
I’ve read that using the CSS image is not a great idea and could impact your reputation eventually
Derek Barnett
28:48
How soon after this do we think the other providers will implement similar changes? I certainly don't expect this to stop with Apple.
Diana Conner
29:38
Can we chat about countdown timers and any ways we can still use them?
Julia Robinson
29:57
@Jen same question as well, b2c vs b2b
Jenny Liou
29:58
How will consumers' ability to "hide their email" impact email deliverability and trackability?
Colin Palmquist
30:00
Can the presenters please confirm the validity of using CSS background images instead of in-line HTML inserted images?
LaDonna LaGuerre
30:19
Yes, Dan this is key for our news orgs but we will be post-OR, no matter what
Jennifer Mann
30:24
reposting Stephen Foster's question -- we are also seeing a large increase in false clicks -- which started this summer!
Brian Duke
30:35
Has anyone seen any impact from "hide my email" (available for Cloud+ subscribers)? This assigns a burner email address instead of exposing the users actual email address.
Blaine Kinsey
30:51
Has anyone seen some providers not tracking opens, even true opens, unless there is a click with iOS 15 devices?
Derek Baines
30:58
^^
George Griffith
31:10
Opens can still be measured on Yahoo and Gmail…one could extrapolate what the open rates would be for an Apple Email client. While not perfect…would this not yield some baseline of a metric?
Charity Lorenzen
31:10
How will MPP affect a new IP warm up process?
Elana Shama
31:12
How do the presenters suggest dealing with un-engaged contacts?
Ivette Garzon
31:31
@Brian that was my question too. I check our new leads but haven't really seen any strange emails. Have you seen an increase in leads or seen any coming in with burner addresses?
Dennis Hengeveld
31:39
The visuals showing email clients that include “iPhone” are odd and misleading. “iPhone” is not an email client and that stat is not directly applicable to this issue.
Robb Nardecchia
31:45
Regardless if users are actively using Apple Mail - if they have it set-up on their device - it will false report opens - even if they “actively” use Outlook or other.
Elana Shama
32:00
Is there an easy way to pinpoint burner emails?
Brian Duke
32:36
Dan is addressing the engaged questions now. We have incl. up and downstream interactions to determine "engagement" with our business and brands. So not only conversions, but when an account has been created, or logged into our sites and apps, etc.
Amy Pepler
32:37
Did the burner email feature get rolled out as part of MPP?
Alaina Calabro
32:55
Hi All, please put your questions in the Q&A portal, so we can make sure we answer them all!
Amy Pepler
33:02
Did the burner email feature get rolled out as part of MPP?
Julia Shcherbatyuk
33:16
the click metric, such as CTO - click-to-open rate - will be wrecked up as well, as the results of the Opens not being accurate
Christiane Rodes
33:39
HIde my email is only available to iCloud+ subscribers (people who pay for a certain tier of iCloud)
Brian Duke
33:49
@ivette nothing has popped yet, but something we will keep an eye on.
Melany Maurer
33:55
@Alaina Calabro Apologies, where is the Q&A portal??
George Sayah
34:22
@Elena They all have the same domain @icloud.com and they will have some weird combination of numbers, hyphen and words. You can possibly “add” iCloud domain emails to a segmentation list that will be targeted through other means
Alaina Calabro
34:49
@Melany you should see a button at the bottom of your screen that says “Q&A” that will bring up all the questions everyone has asked, so you can add your question or up-vote someone else’s question
ANDREW WOLFSON
35:14
Hide my email is a feature of all purchased iCloud storage with the latest update.
STEPHEN FOSTER
35:59
I question whether overly prohibitive technologies like this may be a future target of litigation for restricting free commerce - is there a class-action tsunami coming?
Philip STOREY
36:47
Is this actually something that will help consumers, really?
Khoa Nguyen
37:30
Count down timers will not work, I've seen it with something like a Home Depot daily deals emails
James Flach
37:58
Google has been caching images since 2013. Yahoo has been doing it since 2018. Apple is just the latest to implement such a feature. I don’t understand why Apple’s implementation is causing such an uproar.
Alaina Calabro
38:11
Hey!
Amy Thomas
38:20
B2B vs Consumer emails. Any data on specific impact on each?
Jennifer Mann
38:24
Does the open happen immediately from apple? Could you send an email campaign at an odd time to identify those users that open immediately?
STEPHEN FOSTER
38:28
Exactly - opens factor into persona and interest consideration!
Anthony Isit
38:38
In the name of Privacy, Apple will Open you email
Brian Duke
38:54
The advice that we received re: Countdown timers was to only show Days, not HH:MM:SS.
LaDonna LaGuerre
39:06
YES
LaDonna LaGuerre
39:11
CTOR RIP
Derek Baines
39:12
Thoughts on how legit opens are when a user is on VPN? Apple released https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212797
justin collins
39:26
The effect on our email campaigns to 'non-openers' is painful
Vanessa Pacheco
39:30
Any suggestions on performing A/B tests on content that typically relies on open rates to determine a winner, such as subject line testing?
Janel De La Luz
39:58
Regarding Journeys, our team has discussed if leaving an unopened follow up has any repercussions? It almost could be no harm no foul since Apple is auto-opening anyways. Non Apple users won't know the difference
STEPHEN FOSTER
40:33
is it like a bitly for your email address?
Mindy Crawford
40:35
Can we get the link to Chad’s Hide my Email webinar?
Alaina Calabro
41:06
Link to Chad’s webinar tomorrow: https://oracle.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_rxyupqIKT3-Iw9k20OmgvA
Kaleigh Downing
41:34
Would those be caught in a email verification tool?
nathaniel maymon
41:49
To handle iCloud emails, just disable the ability to signup\submit with those email addresses
Brian Duke
42:10
@Janel that is a really good point. I think the only "repercussion" if you can call it that is that anyone enabling MPP would not see the resend. Otherwise it will still send accurately to those that have not enabled MPP.
Alaina Calabro
42:17
REMINDER: Put all your questions in the Q&A portal— you should see the “Q&A” button at the bottom of the screen.
ANDREW WOLFSON
43:52
@janel - it also would affect journeys with DNOs, that trigger a follow up email / journey if a customer does not open an email. With this, DNO audience will decrease because apple mail will classify everyone as an opener and not place them into the DNO journey.
Persa Konomi
44:27
@Chat: Can we please have the link for tomorrow’s Hide my email webinar?
Alaina Calabro
44:46
Link to Chad’s webinar about Hide my Email: https://oracle.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_rxyupqIKT3-Iw9k20OmgvA
Ana Moriset
45:11
Can you give more details about the hide my email, and what it does
Janel De La Luz
45:14
Thanks Brian and Andrew!
Derek Barnett
45:39
Consumers: Can't you give me exactly what I want when I want it without me having to tell you and without knowing anything about me?
Sean McPartlin
45:51
we are expecting "opens" to be useless in the near future. We are still looking to see how its impacting us so far. Click thru's are what we expect to use as engagement data and not being able to be use "opens"
Nicholas Dettmann
45:59
AGREED!
STEPHEN FOSTER
46:19
Apple would be better served to focus on solving the robocall/scam/phishing calls epidemic
Charity Lorenzen
46:55
@Stephen Foster AMEN! It’s so bad
Diana Knudson
47:06
Google Ads lol
Charity Lorenzen
47:14
Apple Mail Privacy Protection: What We Know Now, What to Do Next & Predictions for the Future
Charity Lorenzen
48:02
@Stephen Foster AMEN! It’s so bad
Denise De Luca
48:10
Have other marketers seen an increase in Open% since the iOS15 launch? We were expecting a surge in open% but did not register one so far.. maybe the uptake is smaller than expected?
Derek Barnett
48:17
Preach, April!
Diana Knudson
48:45
@Denise - same. We've actually seen a slight decrease. Not sure what is going on...
Janel De La Luz
49:00
@Denise- same boat as you, no major surge here. honestly metrics seem to be on par for us.
Sean McPartlin
49:16
So far no surge in opens yet.
Sean McPartlin
49:24
but we are still unpacking the data
Charity Lorenzen
49:34
@denise, same here. Was expecting a surge and don’t see much of a difference.
Hope Barrett
49:39
We haven’t seen much change in opens yet either. I did a pull yesterday and my iOS15 is only about 1% of our iOS audience.
Emma Creagh
49:40
Same here. No notable difference
Dutch Hollis
49:44
Apple isn't forcing upgrade to iOS 15 yet; it's optional
Ashley Netzer
49:47
They mentioned earlier, iOS15 hasn’t been adopted by everyone yet.
ANDREW WOLFSON
49:51
@denise - the big delay is the way Apple has released iOS15. They are currently supporting iOS14 and iOS15 and not forcing an immediate update.
Ashley Netzer
50:05
But those who have (9-14%), are adopting the MPP at a 97% rate
ANDREW WOLFSON
50:27
It could jump with iPhone 13 and it being installed on those devices
Michael LaScala
51:18
https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/ios_15
Sean McPartlin
52:09
Inbox placement stats + click thru's should be more important to call a user engaged. Open's seems to be less than valuable... So a focus on getting the user to click thru is what we are thinking.
Randy Levy
52:21
Great Panel + Great Questions + Great to See the Original Killer App get all this Attention!
Denise De Luca
52:49
Thanks Andrew, thought it was just a slow adoption of the new OS, so impact still to come, but hoping given users will need to opt in to the new Mail Privacy App that impact might be smaller then we expect 🙏
Colin Palmquist
53:26
@Sean, how what tech do you use to find inbox placement rates? I've read that this has to be approximated with spot tests using seed lists - but maybe there's a report with a hard number of placements that exists?
Ryan Bishop
54:23
What about the impact of media pixels used for Retargeting and Floodlight tagging?
Dutch Hollis
54:26
It's either seeds or panels - gong to be a sample either way.
Sean McPartlin
55:11
@Colin. you need to use Seed lists. with each send you include seeds from companies like validity and another one is Green Arrow.
Sean McPartlin
55:25
Those services can be very expensive.
Shelby Boock
56:02
In evaluating how much of my organization's audience will be impacted by this, our email client reports include both "Apple Mail" and "Apple iPhone." Can you tell us, is it ONLY the Apple Mail segment we need to be considering, or would the Apple iPhone segment be impacted by this as well?
Sean McPartlin
56:28
@collin, it's also a guess.. so you have to be able to TRUST companies like Validity and how valuable that stat is.
ANDREW WOLFSON
57:25
@shelby - it depends on how customers open emails. If you have an iPhone but open your emails with the Gmail app, they will not be affected. If they use the native email to open Gmail, Yahoo, Outlook, etc. - they will be affected
Colin Palmquist
57:56
Really appreciate it Sean and Dutch.For anyone else wondering what panels are, this means polling panels similar to what Nielson or YouGov use to approximate consumer sentiments.
ANDREW WOLFSON
58:00
We also have to realize that customers could open email on their phones, or tablet or laptop
STEPHEN FOSTER
58:35
We use a multi-touch influenced model, and email ranks #1 from an influence/contribution perspective
Dutch Hollis
59:15
Panels...Or the thing that SparkPost offers that takes user data in exchange for an inbox management app
John Kirk
59:50
Can anybody recommend a service that helps a very small company verify that emails in its 100,000-strong list are still active?
STEPHEN FOSTER
01:01:10
Stage sending to apple audience - validate how that first 10K perform before sending to all Apple
Jocelyn Carlisle
01:01:21
Yes, but the Apple audience has a different demographic profile, so the relevance might be limited?
ANDREW WOLFSON
01:02:25
Apple audience could be hard too. Cause I have an iPhone that I might open the email on. But I have a PC that I could also open the email from. So really not completely accurate to "target" apple users
Rick Johnston
01:03:14
What about Gmail users? I have a segment that shows opens by ‘Gmail image proxy’
Jocelyn Carlisle
01:03:30
Good point, Andrew. We’ve been working on identifying list of clients used by list members in order to build better usage profiles
Colin Palmquist
01:03:41
Any advice on which Marketing Automation Platforms can segment by email client? Don't believe HubSpot, Marketo, or Pardot can do this natively, and would need static lists created from 3rd party data that tells us the email client of identified records. I could be wrong. Any advice?
STEPHEN FOSTER
01:03:49
yes!
Elana Shama
01:03:56
exactly!
Elana Shama
01:04:10
HubSpot is not providing us with the information we need
STEPHEN FOSTER
01:04:29
We see that in marketo as well
Traba McQuary
01:04:45
We don't see it either
Catherine Amick
01:05:14
Will Apple offer companies the opportunity to buy their engagement data in aggregate?
Diana Knudson
01:05:23
Right, just assume all Apple Device types are most likely opted-in
Alaina Calabro
01:05:43
REMINDER: Put all your questions in the Q&A portal— you should see the “Q&A” button at the bottom of the screen.
Catherine Amick
01:06:04
Oops sorry!
Hope Barrett
01:06:10
But iOS15 adoption still seems pretty low. They only stopped signing 14.8 a few days ago.
Nicholas Dettmann
01:07:10
I've got to go. But terrific insight! Thank you all for your time.
Traba McQuary
01:07:18
Will you be sending out a recording of this webinar?
Alaina Calabro
01:07:47
@Traba, Yes! We’ll send out the recording to everyone tomorrow :)
STEPHEN FOSTER
01:07:54
I liken this to the "cookieless future" for web tracking
BrandON Miltsch
01:07:57
This has been an incredible webinar :) Thanks!
Michelle Johnson
01:08:19
@elana https://community.hubspot.com/t5/HubSpot-Community-Blog/How-to-Prepare-for-the-Apple-s-iOS15-Privacy-Changes-Checklist/ba-p/494069
Elana Shama
01:08:32
Thanks @Michelle
Jay Harris
01:08:53
I know this puts a premium on list cleaning, but how far back is good to look for “engaged” users? To know who to exclude for deliverability…
Sean McPartlin
01:09:43
for our org. our users are 30% apple mobile opens. So it's a large enough base to just have to walk away from Open stats being very important
justin collins
01:09:43
Agreed that this webinar has been VERY valuable. Thank you!
Scott Jones
01:10:41
If email platforms are hooked up to web platforms, you can tag links with user ID and monitor total web clicks/unique user tags to get sharing rate. We've already tested it and results are similar to opens/unique opens - close enough to work with.
Xavier Martinez
01:10:45
Litmus recommends using a day countdown timer for apple users and not hour.
Xavier Martinez
01:10:51
Liveclicker*
Meaghan Bilinski
01:10:58
Movable Ink recently published results that show over 80% of iOS 15 users see content generated within 1 minute of open
Michelle Johnson
01:11:16
Thanks @ivette
Meaghan Bilinski
01:11:31
So countdown timers in theory, will work for about 80% of iOS 15 users (for those who can’t say goodbye to them)
April Mullen
01:11:50
Good to know @meaghan. Thanks!
Liam de Souza
01:11:50
fake open = Faux-pen
Sean McPartlin
01:11:51
@scott Yup. Clicks are good. Opens are useless
Jen McDadee
01:11:58
Any other marketers like to connect on twitter? Let's connect! https://twitter.com/lead_jenn
Randy Levy
01:12:27
Zembula.com has a iOS 15 | Timer Impact pdf for those interested
Sean McPartlin
01:12:39
@meaghan Movable ink is in real trouble
Manny Ju
01:13:02
Maropost's Optimize-on-Open still works perfectly. Test data had proven. Jes' sayin' 😊
Meaghan Bilinski
01:13:58
@Sean how so? countdown timers are a tiny portion of the offering, and as I just stated, they’ll actually still work most of the time.
STEPHEN FOSTER
01:14:06
LOL
LaDonna LaGuerre
01:14:17
y'all need to start a podcast on this topic lol
Chrissy Mickler
01:14:35
lol, I totally vote for a podcast!
Diana Knudson
01:15:01
Upvote Podcast on The Future of All Things Email
Sean McPartlin
01:15:09
@megan worried as this apple tech gets out in the wild that most of how movable ink does stuff is going to break down.
Dave Goff
01:15:45
This group is fantastic. I’d love to have this group of four do a monthly pod or webinar series.
Jillian McKenzie
01:16:56
Thank you for the insight, please continue this series!!! It’s been so helpful!
Melany Maurer
01:17:04
Omg yes, upvote on making a podcast happen
LaDonna LaGuerre
01:17:35
yup the MPP Podcast
Meaghan Bilinski
01:17:51
@Sean Image caching is mostly occurring when connected to power and wifi, which essentially means overnight - check this for more info https://movableink.com/blog/key-takeaways-from-analyzing-ios-15-content-caching
Jes Grant
01:17:59
Thanks everyone! Great info!
Zane Lejniece
01:18:18
Guys, you were amazing! Best webinar team. Greetings from Germany!
Mitchell Rosenthal
01:18:19
Thx!!!!
Brian Duke
01:18:19
Thanks, awesome webinar!
Brittany Zeman
01:18:20
Thanks for your time!
LaDonna LaGuerre
01:18:21
thank you
Derek Barnett
01:18:22
Thank you all!
Amanda Wallen
01:18:23
Thank you!